[Mb-civic] Go easy on Blair

[Cheeseburger]

Re:  Go easy on Blair



Jack wrote:


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The commonweal is the point
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I know nothing of "British? Terms", and assume that means "common good".
Common Good is a nice thing.  Good luck to a majority of earth beings in
ever being consistent recipients of it.


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and public problem solving is the open air theatre for elected democratic
representatives to function.
======

You must not be from America.  Here at least 80 percent, or more, of our
"elected democratic representatives", of all parties, remain on the take
from Big Brother.  How one produces "common good" from such sewer trade, one
can only guess remains as good as the chances of a flea getting an elephant
pregnant.


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We could more easily understand public policy makers if we called them
actors in a theatre space -- playing out society's themes of conventional
wisdom.
======

The British Isles must really be a kinky place to live.  America's "public
policy makers" only play out society's themes of conventional wisdom if
someone is either twisting their arm, paying them off, or has a gun to the
back of their head, figuratively or in real time.  In America, at least, I
don't always hear people describing decades if not longer of mass
brainwashing, training of the population to obey and buy, and screwing the
Common People as often as possible, as "conventional wisdom", nor intimating
that it might have somehow actually emanated from society.  I don't really
know how "The Game" is played in the British Isles, but, again, here in
America, we is still purely Cowboy Land.


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Conventional wisdom is the patch cloth of received knowledge that seldom
suits the problem solving need. Genuine leaders weave new cloth from
history.
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Well, you're talking to a street kid with the intellect of a peanut shell
with a high school education and way above my head, however, you have
already called Blair "A good leader", and although you below suggest that
such facts need never be mentioned in such a current conversation, it
remains that he is covered in blood from head to toe at this time, and if I
must choose between him, and even Bush, at this moment, whether they are
Great Leaders or Covered In Blood, I already know they are covered in blood,
anyone even just mildly suggesting that they are Great Leaders makes my
liver itch.



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So CB, your mother and I agree that a "leader" deals with the common good.
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Again, the British Isles must be a very interesting place.  Here in America,
the "common good" is something that crumbs are thrown to from the Masters'
tables now and then to keep them from waking up, revolting, and taking their
country back to the times it was actually semi-based on things like
equality, truth, justice, freedom, and, yes, even the common good.  Those
days are long gone here in America.  A few holdouts who actually do that
occasionally stand up here, but for the most part, they have been relegated
to the bins of History, just like all the dreams of the Common People,
whether they know it yet or not.



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Politics is a hobby of mine. I once thought about it as a vocation. Thomas
Jefferson attracted me. His wife had my mother's name and root origins.
I had opportunity. I let it go for the less strenuous activity of being a
father to 12 children. Being a father shares attributes with a public policy
person. Both live with their mistakes.
=====


Everyone else must also live with their mistakes.

Or die from them.

Either way, the "public policy person" just keeps going, and going, and
going, and...

And the people who die from their mistakes just keep rotting, and rotting,
and rotting underneath the ground.



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Correct judgment in the moment only reveals its meaning over time.
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Again, I'm sorry, but if that's how it works in the British Isles, I'm happy
for all of you, in America, again, we ran out of time for those kind of
things long ago.


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Young people emerge guided by an ethos for the commonweal only after a
sustained effort.  Imagine helping a child find meaning grounded in the
Commonweal and you have some sense of the impossibility that a world leader
confronts. The Jesuits teach it.
======


I'm sorry, I don't have time to hold World Leaders' hands while they fret
about not being able to provide for an unruly world of children-like humans
who have no sense of The Common Good.  Listen, we're dealing with adults
over here in America.  We watch our World Leaders, and even your World
Leaders, leading us into the jaws of Hell, Iraq, the Middle East, bullshit
after bullshit, and civilians, G.I.s, dying like flies, then we find out
that it was all a big lie, concocted, and produced out of their butts.  If
the current World Leaders can't hack "the impossible" by cutting all that
Deadly Pure Bullshit out and providing for the Common Good, they should turn
in their junior public policy person badges.  I have absolutely no sympathy
for "the devil", whether he manifests himself in a sewer or in a world
leader.  And "The Jesuits" and World Leaders have very little in common at
this time, unless the Jesuits are out mass-murdering civilians, among other
outrageously deadly public policy person things.



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I have learned that Politics is all bickering unless the sweep of history
can be perceived in the work of the actors revealing their interpretations
of hope.
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If you're a PR man for Bush, Blair, and all the rest of the same ilk, you're
doing a great job.  "Public Policy Persons" "revealing their interpretations
of hope".  Again, I don't really know how things work in the British Isles,
but experiencing America for some time now, and knowing at least how a
couple or so things work here, that actually made me chuckle to hear someone
describe endlessly ripping off The Common Good as that.



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Particularly, with due regard to constraints, their work is a vast
opportunity to become a Michelangelo or a Mussolini. The meaning of their
work is more visible in the wake of their deeds. A thankless profession
compensated by false privilege and threats from pride, the danger lurks
always. Those who stand for politics enter the arena of life to be judged
for what most are unable or like me, unwilling to do. Maybe one of my 12,
steeled in the ethos of the common good, will feel the nerve to interpret it
to the world.
=====


Again, I'm in America.  Great sweeping Michelangelos interpreting the Common
Good to and for The People is, again, quickly becoming no more than just
another historic relic stored somewhere in a museum's basement, carefully
guarded, and eternally labelled National Security Secret.  Most of our
politicians, again, remain simply "on the take".  Describing such work they
do as "a thankless profession" is a vast mislabelling imho.


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The first step will deal with the problem of rejection like the man from
Nazareth.  Most of the good ones go out onto the public stage with an image
or persona so the average voter
can accept them from within the comfort space of conventional wisdom, while
moving the public beyond that space into a new vision. Usually a theory or
vision about the future beyond the current reality.
=======


You must be living in an entirely different world than we experience daily
in the United States Of America.  The rest of that sounds like the political
theorem that screwed us to begin with.  Many of these people are Asses.  We
already have the "Leadership" of the USA spouting to our public press here
that they "Make their own reality, something you people wouldn't understand,
don't worry, we're in charge now, it will all be just fine".  The "good
ones" of which you speak, rarely last very long, if ever they even enter any
"arenas".  We are ruled by the trolls of those who consider themselves the
overlords of this steaming little planet.  Pretty flowing words used to
describe what they "do" still remains something I can't even accept as a
reality, nor is it.


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  a.. I think of the Kennedys who betrayed so much.
  b.. I remember Johnson who perhaps redeemed the mistake of blood letting
in Vietnam in the massive social agenda that perhaps only he was able to
politically enact. From a blood and gore point of view, many Black soldiers
conscripted (not volunteered) into Vietnam as cannon fodder for the false
pride and erroneous wisdom of military might, gained for their descendents
the right to vote, sit in a restaurant, drink from a public water fountain,
etc. perhaps forever into the future. I am reading The Known World. Jesse
Jackson claims Johnson as the best American President - ever! Few others so
less affected by his social agenda would agree.
======


That part made my brain hurt.      :|



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Congratulations CB, we have managed with the help of your mother's wisdom,
to get past the barrage of hand wringing about the current bloodbath for
destiny's sake.
======


I didn't need my mother's wisdom to figure out it is a good thing to make
the world a better place to live.

As far as "getting past the handwringing about the current bloodbath for
destiny's sake", if you are over "the vast importance of the current
bloodbath", that's you, me, I'll sleep with it for the rest of my life.  And
this is surely just the beginning of the vast positive results of great
world leaders and public policy makers enforcing the conventional wisdom of
society for the common good of The People.

And anyone who would refer to "handwringing" over "the current bloodbath" as
being a bad, ignorant, unwise thing, or a mistake, appears to have lost
sight of The Common Good long ago.  This is one of the worst disasters I've
seen unfold in my entire life.  And people like Blair and Bush and others
helped to create it.  Out of a pack of lies and their butts.  And people are
dead because of the Public Policies for The Common Good.  Outrageous.
"Destiny" has turned around, curled its lip, and bit us squarely on the
butt.  To make "all this" sound less important even for a moment, or even
mix it in or out of a "discussion about the great traits of great world
leaders, the impossibilities great public policy makers face in their
undying thankless jobs to coax the people into visions of the future and
realities they cannot conceive and blah blah blah looks like a pile of horse
doodoo to me in the face of Abject Reality.  At least from sitting over here
in America and perusing the entire matter.



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This surgical approach is required to understand a single universal value
that we agree is a sine qua non, in a world class leader.

Are there any other benchmark qualities for elected, civic leadership?
Aristotle's Poetics is a reliable source about human culture and the nature
of drama.
 After all, we are involved in a serious drama, and the best leaders are
really actors in a world class plot.

Beware, CB, where all this is may be leading... Quo Vadis?
=======


Again, sitting here talking about "single universal desireable values in a
world class leader" in the face of Abject Reality not only of current events
but of the actual World Class Leaders who got us into all this bullshit, is
to me like discussing an academic question while dead men women and children
are nailed to the side of the room staring at me.  Their bulging eyes seem
to say "What the fuck are you doing?  We are dead.  They killed us.  With a
bunch of lies.  While smiling and invoking mom, apple pie, the flag, God,
and Freedom.  You are sitting around wasting your time discussing the
desired qualities in a world class leader?  Move, we have found another who
will represent us in the universal court of justice."  As far as what you
mean by where all this may be leading, I'm not sure what you're talking
about.  As far as me not being able to understand Latin, I can only guess
that that means something like "The game is about to start, why isn't the
beer cold yet...?"



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PS It will help the process of discourse - if we both agree and stipulate to
'concise our replies' by omitting that paid US soldiers are dying as part of
their profession; and that Iraqi civilian death and destruction is the
policy cost for some undetermined vision of the future shared by Bush and
Blair.
=======


I would love to accomodate you on that one, but that remains a rather
crucial and integral part of the entire thing.  That's like trying to teach
someone how to make potato salad with no potatoes.  I might try not to refer
to it that much, even though it remains at the crux of all sorts of matters
at this late historic date, but I doubt if I will omit it from certain
thoughts anytime in the near future.  I wouldn't be able to live with myself
by completely ommitting such an atrocity from any discussion about any
"undetermined vision of the future shared by Bush and Blair".  The dead
people on the wall staring at me just won't allow it.


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What I would like to ascertain - dispassionately if possible - is
what is the unstated objective behind all their common bravado...

  a..    Is it akin to Roosevelt's hidden agenda to use Pearl Harbour to
stimulate the American economy out of the Great Depression and other
benefits urged by Churchill which we     now applaud from this historical
vantage point that elevated the USA to a world class super power? Have the
French always valued their cuisine over courage?

  a.. Did Truman's decision to drop "the bomb" that killed so many people
mercilessly, that started the Cold War, that exported Capitalism, that gave
Japan a privileged position in the Far East as the wedge between the two
giant Communist powers? Thus giving Japan the means to their own end?

  a.. Is there something about starting a "Donnybrook" (excuse my Irish) in
such a woebegotten places like Iraq and Afghanistan that affects the way the
border between Israel and the Palestinians is quietly evolving, or the way
that Saudi Arabia is being prepared for change management, or the
relationship of France and Germany are aligning with Russia, Indeed that the
Euro is in decline? That the new Pope is picking up where the old one left
off?
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You're way above my historical scholar head now.  I understand some of it.
But a lot of it is just too long for me to answer, if even I know, so I will
simply press on with the lasting thought that if that is how true Academia
actually reasons and thinks, we are in a shitload of trouble.  Although I
understand some of your "talking points", I find it rather difficult to
approach the entire matter from a perspective as a player in the board game
of "Risk" or "Diplomacy".  If anything, talk "down" a little, I will be
better able to formulate both what your purest reasonings are and hopefully
reply with something at least semi-intelligent.

As far as the "unstated objective behind all their bravado", I thought that
World Domination was rather clear by now.  In America it is becoming a
rather regular catchword on the streets.  In the British Isles, I do not
know.  Perhaps they need bifocals to ascertain "where this is all going".  I
don't mean that as sarcastic, but as a realistic observation if "The Brits"
can't see "World Domination" trampling everything in its path at this late
tragic date.


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So much to talk about and so little time. We must keep it simple. What do we
look for in a leader,
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Again, among all the other things that almost everyone and their parakeets
already know, that he, at the very very least, at least washes his hands
after he finishes nailing dead bodies up on my wall and before he extends
his hand in peace, compassion, good will to all, and his undying promise to
uphold The Common Good to me.


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What is the effective policy of Western survival
against the festering evil of terrorism born out of Saudi Arabia and
deflected into Israel and on to the twin towers and now London?
======


Propaganda.  Not only is the above "question" relatively Propaganda within
itself, but "Propaganda" also remains the answer to the question itself.

It's not necessarily "effective", but Great World Leaders apparently like to
use it more than things like common sense, wisdom, and you name it.


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CB we need a root and branch analysis of the future of capital society...to
comprehend what is going on in Iraq. War is hell...what is policy behind it
that was shared by those that went before us...Roosevelt, Truman,
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, (Ford - ah hem) Reagan (Pope John and
Thatcher) Bush 1 (Our Own and Dearest William Jefferson) Clinton and now
Bush 2...do you see any consistent, effective patterns of world-class,
elected, political management - amidst so many mistakes of judgement?

DublinJack
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I seem to already understand "what is going on in Iraq", as well as
apparently millions of other People from around the world.  Again, no
offense, but I never made it to college/university.  Is this =really= how
people talk and think in College or in "Mainstream Academia"..?  Again, no
offense, but I'm just not familiar, nor apparently comfortable, while,
again, 100,000 dead Iraqi men women and children are under the ground as
well as thousands of our own G.I'.s (volunteers or not) who are wounded or
still coming back in body bags from "The Great Forgotten Iraq".  Speaking of
such things as "list, if any, the consistent, effective patterns of
world-class elected, political management in the face of so many mistakes of
judgement" curls my hair, buddy.

It sends a tingle up my spine.

I still fail to see why anyone would "need a root and branch analysis of the
future of capital society to understand what is going on in Iraq".  The kids
in junior high schools in America, the ones that aren't completely
brainwashed yet, even understand "what is going on in Iraq".  I really mean
no offense to you in replying to any of your queries, it just strikes me as
rather odd in the face of a concocted war based on lies to begin with where
tons of people are already dead to be discussing the academics of various
facets of perhaps what would constitute the best traits to be looked for in
"a great world leader", especially since you have already designated Blair
himself of that ilk.  Me, I still see him covered in blood of Innocents,
world class or not.

As far as "Policy Behind Things", heh, I dunno, kid, it always seemed to me
that "World Class Leaders" of such things as the USA and Britain just went
out, all throughout History, and simply just took Whatever They Wanted, and
smashed anyone in their way.

Not much seems to have changed.

Again, no offense, personal, about anything, but in the face of WHAT IS at
the current moment, discussing things like "consistent, effective patterns
of world-class,
elected, political management" makes my head feel like the ping pong ball my
pitbull ate the other day.



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PS We must cut this down for the sake of our other lives.
=====

I WILL try to concise my replies to various things, however, as far as
cutting down on discussing various things about which World Class Leaders
are or are not covered head to toe in the blood of Innocents as they are
leaning down to kiss another baby for another photo op treacherously
pretending to actually be benevolently and sincerely looking out for the
Commonweal, I would immediately, except all the dead people hanging on my
wall won't let me, and they're the only employers I have at this time, and
if I don't do what they say, I just might not be able to save up enough
money which they meagerly scrape together from spare change left in their
rotting pockets in their graves to make it back to California to be a film
star.

I think it's just the ooky eyeballs hanging out from the eye sockets of the
little children that get to me.

No matter what I do, what I think, or how much I try to quit or hide, they
always find me.

Others, such as so many Great World Leaders, however, have no problems
whatsoever sleeping at night, chuckling to themselves in their dreams "That
Cheeseburger, what a clown, 'make the world a better place to live', lol."

Apparently they are so drunk with power that the dead no longer bother them,
if ever they did.

All in all, it appears that many Great World Leaders remain swine, polite
swine perhaps, but swine nevertheless.





Cheeseburger

.